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Baby grey aggression

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Nickynack

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Baby grey aggression
« on: August 27, 2015, 01:34:21 PM »

Hi everyone. This is my first post about my new parrot Bella!

A bit about me: I'm a mum of four girls and have had greys in my family since I was 14-15. We have 2 Labradors, tropical fish, frogs, snails and shrimp.

About Bella: she (not DNA) is 13 weeks old, cuddly tame, already talking beautiful baby grey. We have had her a week. She is sweet and loves everyone, let's everyone pet her, cuddles in for snoozes and isn't scared of our dogs either. She's tasting my phone and flapping her wings as I write!
She gets out most of the day either on her play part of the cage or down beside us, and has lots of toys, veggies and fresh water available at all times.
She seems to be aggressive only towards our youngest, three year old Mia. Mia adores Bella and is always trying to give her a peanut, or a toy, or a bit of paper to shred up. Bella charges towards her, even if she isn't going near her. She hasn't bitten her yet but she hasn't really had the chance to. What can I do to correct this behaviour and why is she doing this? I haven't seen any poking or prodding from Mia so I don't think that's it. And it can't be jealousy because she is fine with everyone else....

Thanks in advance!
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Tony-howard

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2015, 02:33:39 PM »

Hi

Welcome to the site please have a look around there is lots of advice and tips on here if you have a question please don't hesitate to ask someone will always be happy to help you.

Bella sounds a cute bundle of joy, but notoriously they don't like children generally because they the children flap around them are loud etc, they do everything at hundred miles per hour and the birds don't like that, I would be very careful when your little daughter is near Bella as you say Bella hasn't bit her yet and may not but having tiny little fingers if she did bite her it could be quite nasty.

They generally chose there mate and may tolerate other members of the family but there are some members that have more than one grey but can't handle some of them but can the others.

Just beware of Bella around the dogs a swipe or even saliva from the dog is enough to be harmful or fatal to Bella. So I guess the only thing really is to not force the issue with your daughter and Bella.

Tony Mamadou kiwi & Gomez
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Mandi

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 02:40:32 PM »

Hi and welcome from me
Tony has covered everything so i won't add anything
Have a good look around and enjoy your stay here x x
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Nickynack

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 03:27:48 PM »

Thank you for the welcome. So, is this something I just have to get used to, nothing can be done to correct it? I don't mind if she just tolerates her rather than loves her, as long as she stops the charging...?
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Tony-howard

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 04:31:33 PM »

Hi Nickynack

I guess for now it's probably the safest option to accept that this is how things will be in terms of your daughter and Bella being close. It's likely that Bella will continue to charge at your daughter if she is near her or approaches her cage.

Tony Mamadou kiwi & Gomez
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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 04:59:28 PM »

I'm going to disagree I've had 5 year old strangers pluck Hickory up off my shoulder. In fact on Hickory seeing little people will say hello or chuck out her name hoping for a treat stuffing.

It's not just children, they hate fast changing things. I could put my 2 in a school playground at breaktime they'd barely notice. 1 child in an empty beer garden will have loads more affect. A busy environment is tolerable a busy person in a quiet environment is a disruption and a possible threat.

Can you train a parrot not to feel threatened, bite or like only person of course you can. Just as you can do the reverse it's upto you.

Will it be easy of course not, look at it from the parrots point of view.  If I came up to you and shoved my fast hand in your face you'd be nervous.

The difficulty is teaching them that biting doesn't get the result they want yet understanding the beak is their 3rd limb for climbing and investigating the world. It's about teaching them mouthing is acceptable but biting isn't.
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Nickynack

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2015, 05:44:05 PM »

I'm going to disagree I've had 5 year old strangers pluck Hickory up off my shoulder. In fact on Hickory seeing little people will say hello or chuck out her name hoping for a treat stuffing.

It's not just children, they hate fast changing things. I could put my 2 in a school playground at breaktime they'd barely notice. 1 child in an empty beer garden will have loads more affect. A busy environment is tolerable a busy person in a quiet environment is a disruption and a possible threat.

Can you train a parrot not to feel threatened, bite or like only person of course you can. Just as you can do the reverse it's upto you.

Will it be easy of course not, look at it from the parrots point of view.  If I came up to you and shoved my fast hand in your face you'd be nervous.

The difficulty is teaching them that biting doesn't get the result they want yet understanding the beak is their 3rd limb for climbing and investigating the world. It's about teaching them mouthing is acceptable but biting isn't.

Great! How do I start?!
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Tony-howard

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2015, 06:30:03 PM »

Hi Nickynack

I can't disagree with Feathermonkey that teaching them mouthing is acceptable but biting isn't, but at 3yrs old I honestly believe your little daughter Mia is far to young to be interacting with Bella you already explain that she charges at your daughter when she is near her and I personally wouldn't want to risk anything, of course you can ask when is the time going to be right to start slow interaction between your daughter and Bella but I personally think 3yrs old is to young, and how would you start I wouldn't know.

Tony Mamadou kiwi & Gomez
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Nickynack

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 09:01:07 PM »

I wonder why she doesn't like Mia. I have a 5 year old and she's fine with her. Loves my 11 year old too. It's strange!

Thanks everyone for the advice so far :)
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Tony-howard

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2015, 09:28:16 PM »

Aww bless her

You know in a strange way Bella probably does love her but they are very complex creatures, and unfortunately we can't determine who they will like or not, but you know Mia could still interact with Bella from afar by talking to her etc.

By the way do you have any photos of Bella we like to see pics

Tony Mamadou kiwi & Gomez
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Nickynack

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2015, 10:08:50 PM »

I do! I'll post some up tomorrow morning as I'm not sure how to from my phone
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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2015, 11:05:58 PM »

What Tony said I agree..

The lunging I do know a form of I'm just working the tail end out of Willow. Willow has always been beaky, he'll always go in with his beak. I know he won't bite but I'm very careful with who tries that. I need to know they won't snatch away or react and will let him mouth.

As for why? Willow started this with my mum. I've trained my mum not him more. The behaviour I find strange it seems half play, half it's mine! I can trigger Willow by banging something he's been banging. The problem is not teaching them it gets the response they want. Sometimes just the ouch is enough drama, noise is fun and relaxing.

They're not daft they'll train us as much, my 2 will go all over the flat for my mum, because they get treats. So if they want treats they'll fly out of reach or on something they get called off. So do I stop my mum rewarding or not? For me it's simple my mum needs to get them down from anywhere her recall is probably better than mine or my brothers so she rewards all the time every time.

It's also a trust thing it works both ways somedays they just want leaving alone. Hickory and Willow will both move a finger out the way or side step, a click means sort me out now!

So I agree you can't teach with a 3 year old. You do need someone that will react correctly. Mine have known gentle(less enthusiastic) and nicely(be nice, works best with the favoured one) for a long time. You may find it's you that's already been trained perhaps the bird likes your drama when it lunges.

If you can train them to step up, wave, do colours, call a treat by name etc etc etc... Then it's more than possible to teach them to be socialable and not to bite.

As for how? I find training what you want, not what you want to get rid off is the only way. I use clickers but don't have to now 'good girl/boy' is generally good enough for a primary for me now. I wanted a parrot to sit on my knee and not pester for food, that is what I trained.

With biting issues you need to identify the true cause, fear is to be expected. It's up to us to show them what's not fearful or put them into that position where they bite out of fear. The other reasons can be trained out IMO.

Teaching/training a bird how to socialise with all members of the flock and extended is up to us. Don't expect them to have the same relationship with everyone some they will fear, it's about how you want to deal with that fear. I just take them out of the situation. More often not if it's a person(normally it's more their attire though) I encourage them to reward the bird.

So think like a zookeeper, train the behaviour you want, ignore the behaviour you don't. Drama is reward to a feathered drama junkie. Be clear and consistent with commands and rewards. Reward the behaviour you want. If you want a bird that doesn't lunge you train it, but if it is fear driven then the trainer is at fault. Build trust let them set some rules it's a 2 way St, they're not dogs, tricks aren't just for our benefit.

I've waffled on sorry been a long day at work.. Not sure how it reads but it's nothing more than my beliefs and what works for me. I've been told by my 2 I'm pushing it to far, been caught separating them, been tested, training never stops.
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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2015, 11:20:39 PM »

On why I suspect the frantic personality of the toddler. Seen this with them waving, running around making noise.

It's all about visual change these birds are visually orientated. I know a busy Saturday afternoon beer garden will be fine can give me anything, wheelchair, buggy, dog, kids my 2 won't care. Visually the environment is a busy static. An empty garden with a frantic toddler must look like hell has risen.
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Nickynack

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 02:06:11 PM »

Here she is
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LynnP

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Re: Baby grey aggression
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 02:39:56 PM »

What a sweet little baby. Welcome from me too x
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