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Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc

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Author Topic: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc  (Read 1008 times)

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Rio270314

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Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« on: September 06, 2015, 10:18:51 AM »

Hi. Just wanted opinions on Rio, 17mths female. Stopped talking 8 days ago and reluctance to climb much. Fluffing up at back of cage alot and unusually cuddly. Appetite quite good and drinking water. Saw avian vet 5 days ago. After exam a slight noise was heard on air sac , theres been no wheezing or anything though. Put on Baytril & Zolcal. Bloods were taken, result white cells 32 calcium abit low despite Harrisons being main diet. Told to keep on these meds and watch and wait. Get her in shaded sun too which we are doing right now.
Weight stable at 439/440 - appetite still good but preferring seed over pellets.
Still very quiet though is now having a talking session on an evening for last 2 days where she is lively and chatty - then clams up again apart from odd whistle.
She is preening as normal but still not 'quite right'.
Also seems to move around cautiously...
Advice from vet is if not 10/10 normal self after meds finish on Tuesday then go back for xrays and endoscopy. She is insured so cost is not a problem.
Just wondered if anyone has been through similar problems, it's very worrying she's like one of my children!  Can't seem to put my finger on it...any ideas I really don't want to leave her at the vets as she will miss us but I may have no option.
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Mandi

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2015, 01:15:00 PM »

I'm no vet so his advice is well above mine
But also our sun ain't no where near as strong as what they would natural get so to me (and my vet) a avian UV lamp is a absolute must
They need vitD (from the sunshine) to process calcium (could be the reason Rios is low)
I run my lamps through winter and on darker summer days too :)
Other than Harrison's  what are you feeding ?
If he is eating pellet well then seeds aren't needed
Though I will admit Iv just switched from a pellet based diet (6 yrs they been on them) to a more seed based
No matter what pellet I tried coco had the most fowl smelling poop ever
Now they on a good quality seed they are back to normal and don't smell at all :)
Though I will say my lot do eat all the seeds not just pick at certain ones :)
Hope Rio is ok , please keep us posted :)
Ps you can order a UV Lamp from as little as 45 I think it is from SCARLETTS and that includes a bulb x
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Tony-howard

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2015, 02:24:37 PM »

Hi Mandi

Your right I just got one from Scarlett, the one that bolts to the cage and it was 45 and like you say so crucial to the birds well being.

Hi Rio270314

Please keep us informed on how Rio gets on

Tony Mamadou kiwi & Gomez
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Rio270314

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2015, 02:26:00 PM »

Hi Mandi thanks for the reply. She normally has her Harrisons through the day then I allow some mixed seeds and a few nuts in the evening. Also some fruit and veg through the day. Thats her usual diet but with her being unwell the vet and I agreed any food within reason is better than nothing. Shes had her birdie bread the last few days (Harrisons) but shes preferring seed to pellets and I've weighed her today shes gained 6 grams in two days. A combination of more calorific food and less activity I think. But I'd rather she gain than lose weight.
At the moment shes just had a ball game with my daughter...so she is playing etc but just not as she normally is.  I need to buy the lamp. She is my first grey I have had budgies but did not know she needed the lamp and am shocked her calcium is low at her age on mainly pellets.
Do you think as an experienced owner that the calcium could be causing her symptoms? Forgot to say she is holding her right leg up alot too - but the vet can't find any problem with it by examining it.
Thanks Joanne
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Rio270314

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 02:29:40 PM »

Will need to source the lamp elsewhere though as I had a fallout with scarletts over an undelivered order - there is a freestanding floorlamp at Northern parrots - does anyone use this one?
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Tony-howard

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2015, 06:17:25 PM »

Hi Joanne

The free standing lamp is fine I use it for over Mamadou's cage.

Tony Mamadou kiwi & Gomez
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jules

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 03:19:37 PM »

Hi sorry to hear Rio is a bit poorly. The lack of calcium could well be causing these symptoms, as one of the greys I sit for had a cramp like episode, where her leg stiffened up. Blood tests showed her to be very low in calcium, and she is having jabs to rectify thisx

Hopefully the zolcal will help Rio and ask your vet first but I'd recommend he has it several times a week, once he is back to full health. If he likes almonds offer a couple of those a day too or a small cube of cheese, these will help boost his calcium levels.

It's not your fault but Ive said this for years and can't say it enough, birds, especially greys need that bit extra calcium, regardless of how many pellets, or how good their diet is. I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall  :grumble:

I think the lamps would be the same at Northern Parrots and Scarletts :)
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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 04:12:30 PM »

Don't agree and research doesn't it's highly likely they are more susceptible to deficiencies than other birds. Look up Stanfords research on seed diet and bulbs.

Calcium absorption is probably less likely caused by lack of calcium, but more than likely a vit d3(what Mandi said) or phosphorus problems than calcium. Calcium uptake could just as likely be being disrupted by high phosphorus levels. There is some that think due to the colouring of feathers they block a lot of the light meaning they need a lot lot more to synthesise vit d.

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww22eii.htm so by just focusing on calcium 2 components are being missed and too much calcium is just as bad as not enough.

With a reputable pellet company this should be catered for. From my brief look Harrisons cover it with kelp and alfalfa. Egg would be a far better choice including phosphorus but that should be in the diet, question is it too high or is vit d3 too low.

Don't guess calcium additives, they should be suggested by vets. On that note Willow is a touch low always has been it just seems to be his norm had him on 3 6 mth visits, never once suggested calcium supplements.
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jules

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 04:18:53 PM »

All vets are different, and yes a lack of sunlight, and vit d, will not help calcium levels. Jasper has calcivet and its never done her any harm, with a lamp and outside time xx

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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 04:27:06 PM »

No he's just a touch low but is a dedicated avian vet who loves birds of prey yep lucky I know. A good vet shouldn't willy-nilly apply calcium supplements been proven by Stanfords research. A good vet should have access to that.

Calcium is a slow death look it up I'd never ever give it to mine without vet recommendation.

Sadly a lot of grey myths still survive and are still being perpetuated through forums....
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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 04:52:46 PM »

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww26evij.htm written years before the research http://www.palsvetlab.co.uk/app/download/7169522/6-3+UVB.pdf the reason why we suggest bulbs, note results couldn't tell a difference between diet.
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Rio270314

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 01:37:55 PM »

Hi everyone, just an update and thankyou for replies, Rio has picked up nicely now shes staying on 0.43mls zolcal once a day just spoken again with Avian veterinary centre in chester. Shes got a lamp now and is enjoying it.
It's great to see her back to her usual self, this morning she has been really chatty and asking me (in her Yorkshire accent) "What''s up wi' you?" - she is so funny!
Good to know people are on here to talk to. Thanks Joanne
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LynnP

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Re: Unwell :-( low calcium/ high wbc
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2015, 11:36:40 AM »

Glad to hear Rio is much better Joanne. AVS are brilliant I use them too x
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