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Advice sought [are we being cruel?]

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Author Topic: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]  (Read 1484 times)

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BlackJAC

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Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« on: July 25, 2016, 05:56:14 PM »

Not visited this site for a long time so will give a quick history on our situation.

We rescued Yeller around 16 years ago and around that time, she was diagnosed with psittacosis.  She pulled through that only for chronic sinus infections to rear their head.  We were told about 13 years ago that her infections were resistant to antibiotics.  It was actually discussed after her one and only sinus flush, that if that didn't work, there would be no more they could do. It happened umpteen times after and on 2 occasions we were told the kindest thing to do would be to put her to sleep.  We refused as she was still eating, drinking and being a very happy and playful parrot.

I have no idea if it was mere coincidence, but we still got a course of antibiotics each time it came back and each time it would disappear for months on end and sometimes even a year or two.  The logic was, it was better to feel we were doing something rather than nothing even if they were doing nowt.

However, this time, whilst the infection cleared up when she was on antibiotics, days later she had a slight brownish discharge from one nasal again.  The antibiotics have clearly failed to work.  The vet has stated once more she should be put to sleep as we have refused to put her through another nasal flush (she looked horrific after she had that done and we vowed never to put her through that again). Other than slight nasal discharge, which does dry up for a few days, she is fully alert, normal appetite, drinking as she should, boisterous, running around the floor like a cat on a hot tin roof and everything you'd see a healthy parrot doing.

I fully realise parrots are experts at hiding illness, but we've had so many issues with her, we like to think we now know when she's feeling very poorly.  She's not giving out any of those signals. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated because if we had listened to the avian vets years ago, Yeller wouldn't have been around for the last 13 years.

 
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kazky

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 06:59:38 PM »

Oh bless you, is it worth trying another avian vet?
I would honestly be doing the same as you, if she's alert, playing and eating etc then she's not doing too bad, yes they hide their illness but they can't do it all the time so if she was suffering i'm sure you'd know.

As you said, if you'd listened to the vet years ago she would have missed 13 years of love.
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Mandi

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2016, 09:06:36 PM »

Hi
I'd say same as Kaz , second opinion
One vet told me to put peach to sleep
I just found another vet :)
Please keep us posted xx


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BlackJAC

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2016, 09:42:27 PM »

Thanks for the reassurance.  We just kinda wanted out actions validated by people who are around these bundle of feathers day in, day out. 

The way I see it, no animal (and I assume human too) had it been suffering to the extent it needed to be put to sleep would still be here over a decade later.  She's had a good life and i see no difference in her now to when they said that to us 13 years ago.

The only time she's actually looked seriously ill or close to death was after the sinus flush.  She looked like she had went 12 rounds with Mike Tyson and lay on the bottom of her cage floor for 24hours in a roosting position.   

Her weight has remained stable through all this too and she's never sat there fluffed up all snoozy during the day.  She's too busy causing havoc.   
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kazky

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Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 11:25:43 PM »

You know her better than anyone, there's no point ending the life of a beautiful companion if there's no suffering.

If you can i would still get a second opinion, avian vets vary vastly in their knowledge, expertise and empathy.

I would keep a check on her weight every few days to monitor any fluctuations but continue as you are.

Out of interest do you have an air purifier? They are a big expense, around 200 for a decent one, don't bother with cheap ones, but honestly, i would not be without mine, it makes a huge difference to the air quality & it must help with her sinus'.

If you can afford it, its worth trying. :) keep updating us,


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greenfield10@karoo

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2016, 09:30:16 AM »

 As a long term parrot owner and  like the others have said no one knows the bird better then you and full marks to you on this one  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.  To me your doing the right thing:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
We went to loads of vets before we found one that suited us .
We own two older parrots, one that we have now  found out is most likely far older then we ever thought  :cry2:. Hes now got arthritisis that hes on meds for for life :cry2: . Hes got a bone growth under his wing and we was told yesterday that hes slowly going blind so now hes got a course of eye drops . We also think that our vet feels she doesent want to put him through any more then we have to  :nono: But hey what the hell , you could never meet a happier bird .He spends his day ripping and chewing  anything up he can get his beak on a whistling his police interceptors so what the hell does it matter!!!! .
Our vet through all this has never once said he should be put down shes just told us ways to make his life more comfortable  :thumbsup:
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FeatherMonkey

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 09:29:59 PM »

What a conflict, after reading a little. Seems it goes into remission as you know already it possibly zoonotic and could shed in remission.

You seem to have Yellers best interests at heart. After 13 years you know the risks,you know the lows and highs.

For me it's about quality of life, you certainly give the impression the good outweigh the bad.

I think instinctive diagnosis recommends containment via extreme measures as being contagious, zoonotic and also shedding in remission.

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BlackJAC

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2016, 09:35:51 PM »

The infection she gets from time to time isn't psittacosis.  She has been tested for that umpteen times since through bloods and all the swabs that have been taken point to it being an infection that isn't transmittable between birds and humans.  The vets just think her upper respiratory system became vulnerable as a result of the psittacosis. Her infection has cleared up or at least she's not been bothered with any discharge since the day after i wrote my initial post.  She's just been through a large molt and is highly sexed at the moment.  I can't even go near her without her dropping her wings.  Hell, I drink a lot of costa and she obviously associates those cups with me and as a result, she wants to mate with those at the moment too.  It's a catch 22 because in an attempt to calm her down, I'm spending less time with her because I think the last thing she needs is feeling the need to mate.  Then that means she's a bit more stressed as I'm not handling her a lot at the moment.

I'm in no doubt if she were to lay an egg, that really would be the end of her.  We're lucky she hasn't laid in all the years we've had her.

We're always very careful when cleaning out her cage regardless (dampen the paper down with water and use a bird friendly anti bacterial spray) as we're aware psittacosis can be shed through droppings even if birds have been psittacosis free for many years. We don't allow our kids to go near the bottom of her cage or even involve them in the cleaning.
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jules

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 03:30:52 PM »

Oh poor yeller has been through some hasn't she? I'd be inclined to do the same and leave her be, she sounds happy enough and you'd certainly know if she became very ill  :cheekkiss:

I worried when jasper laid her two eggs early last month, but after a few days she was back to normal x
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BlackJAC

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2016, 09:18:28 PM »

Just a quick update.  Since i last posted this, Yeller has been fine.  No discharge, nothing.  I trust the avian vets who are treating her and have every confidence in them treating her, but as this proves once again some are only too quick to condemn some animals.  It kinda makes you think how many animals get put to sleep unnecessarily on a daily basis.

Thanks to those who took the time out to reassure us that we were indeed doing the right thing.  Sometimes you're not sure if you're the one blinded by love towards these little bundle of feathers and the vets are seeing the whole picture.
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kazky

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2016, 10:07:06 PM »

That's such good news, honestly i can't believe some vets give up so easy. So glad you didn't listen.
Thank you for updating us :)
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Mandi

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2016, 05:56:53 AM »

That's great to hear
Enjoy many happy years together xx


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jules

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2016, 10:52:09 PM »

Thanks for letting us know, so glad yeller is doing well. Would love to see photos of her soon  :cheekkiss:
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BlackJAC

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 04:01:14 PM »

Another wee update just to let everyone know that like my last post, she has been completely fine and hasn't had any days where she's acted or appeared unwell.  Around 4 months ago a vet suggested we have her put down.  Had her back to the same vet for a check up and she was kinda coy over the whole thing.  Sometimes some "I told you so"'s are justified and hopefully that will stop the same vet from writing off other animals.
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JackH

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2016, 07:48:41 PM »

Really good to hear that Yeller is doing well. Would be great to see some pics of her and I'll look forward to hearing about her progress.


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kazky

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 09:29:28 PM »

Absolute proof that even vets sometimes don't know our feathered ones better than we do. Great news that she's fine, you must be so happy that you didn't take the advice even more now :)
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BlackJAC

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 10:20:54 PM »

Really good to hear that Yeller is doing well. Would be great to see some pics of her and I'll look forward to hearing about her progress.


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I'm always a wee bit apprehensive posting pics as she's a feather plucker from waaay back when she had liver issues with the psittacosis. Liver issues make us very itchy so it's assumed it's the same in birds.  Her liver has been fine for years, but we have never been able to shake her plucking habit.  She is well stimulated, out for hours on end and I'm in the house for the best part of the day, so we know it's not stress related.  Due to her previous illnesses too, she's smaller than most greys.  She's about the size of a Timneh Grey.  In other words, looks a sorry wee thing, but she's been through a few illnesses that would have killed most birds.  She's healthy inside and happy, so I suppose that's all that matters.
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kazky

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 10:37:58 PM »

Don't feel embarrassed about her plucking, Mandi is one of the best parrot carers I know and she struggles to control her sweet girl plucking. Sometimes it becomes too strong a habit to break :)
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BlackJAC

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 11:16:35 PM »

I got a new phone so I haven't got any photos on my phone.  Will swing by tomorrow with some of the poor wee soul.  Saying that, she likes a photo as she gets to attack the phone when i show her the photos.  That's another habit we've never been able to shake, her dislike for anything that's a phone or a TV remote.  If we leave a phone or remote on the floor she'll actually climb down from her cage, walk to the other side of the living room just so she can attack 'em.  We've never been able to figure out if she loathes them or simply enjoys attacking them.  She's like that with bare feet too.  Fine when you have shoes on, but homes right in on them if they're bare.  She's not even a vicious bird other than when there's toes, phones and remotes.
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kazky

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Re: Advice sought [are we being cruel?]
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2016, 08:55:59 AM »

all birds destroy remotes, I have no idea why, they just love to destroy tech.

And mostly all birds detest feet, however my girl absolutely loves them, she snuggles in when she gets chance, its the weirdest thing and i've never known a bird to do that.

They are fickle little bundles :D
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